A Church Girl’s Desire to Relate with Doubters, Skeptics, and Atheists

A Church Girl’s Desire to Relate with Doubters, Skeptics, and Atheists

I’ve been reading a book entitled, “The Doubter’s Club” by Preston Ulmer, and it has made me do a lot of thinking about how I relate to doubters, atheists, and the deeply wounded. I realize that many of those wounds come from the church, making faith-based dialogue something you don’t want to get into. Yet, this book has given me hope that respectful, honest dialogue is possible and even beneficial even when parties disagree. This is an area where I greatly desire to grow and make an impact both in the church and community.

I HAVE A LOT TO LEARN ABOUT HOW TO RELATE WITH THE DEEPLY WOUNDED

My now deceased husband and I adopted our son with autism at five years old. Because of his trauma he has always struggled with his faith. I understand now, but when he was a child I was often clueless about how to relate with him in his pain. One particular conversation is seared into my memory. I read the Bible to him daily, and on one particular day read Psalm 139 and told him, teary-eyed with joy, that God fashioned and knew him intimately. I assumed he would be as comforted as I to hear he wasn’t “a mistake”. However, the revelation that God made him with autism on purpose only made him angry and began his descent from singing “Jesus loves me” to “O how I hate Jesus” much to my grief and dismay.

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.

I THOUGHT I’D COME A LONG WAY, BUT…

I had a conversation on IG over a year ago with an atheist. I was as nervous as all get out because I didn’t want to do something dumb. I was proud of the fact God would entrust me with such an “assignment”. (I told you I have a long way to go.) Our discourse over a few weeks was polite and respectful on both ends. Much to my shame, when he eventually asked, “Is your god powerful?” I assumed he figured I’d never seen God’s power. Delighted to be able to proclaim God’s power, I replied, “Yes, I have found him to be so.” I never heard from him again and took his lack of response to mean, “I didn’t expect that answer, and am dumbfounded.”

However, months later (sometimes I can be dense) I remembered that some of his posts recounted (if I remember correctly) he had been molested during childhood by a trusted church member. Had I been less quick to answer and more desirous to show compassion, I would have realized where he was coming from. “If your god is so powerful, why didn’t he stop this person who called themselves a Christian from doing what they did to me?” In my zeal to proclaim Jesus to an atheist, hoping to wow him with my answers, I failed to see his pain. Even today, my lack of compassion brings me deep sadness.

I don’t believe I won any brownie points. I now realize that my selfish, arrogant motives grieved God because I failed to recognize this man and share in his pain. I failed to respond as Jesus would have, in anger and grief that someone whom he and his family trusted destroyed him in Christ’s name.

I should have grieved with this man. Yet I left him reassured that Christians are jerks and God hates him.

HOW I WISH I HAD RELATED TO THE ATHEIST

So today if I were to have another opportunity to relate with this man, I would do things differently. I would grieve with him for all that was destroyed in those hideous, reckless, thoughtless, selfish acts. I would hope to be quicker toward compassion and slower to answer with statements that would only increase the pain. I would try to see him rather than “an assignment”, Were he reading, I would say, “I’m so sorry for how I treated you. It was shameful and so wrong. Please forgive me.

Were we sitting over coffee, I would weep and rage with him over what happened and grieve how poorly I treated him.

HOW MY SON AND I RELATE NOW

My son is now thirty. He has found some comfort in walking with Christ. Yet, he still understandably struggles with his faith.

He and I continue to have faith discussions, and I now recognize he’s been through so much more than I could ever imagine. He’s a strong young man, and although we continue at times to struggle in our relationship, I’ve learned so much from him. I’ve changed so much because he is in my life, and I’m grateful.

MY DESIRE IS TO RELATE WITH YOU

if you’ve read any posts on this website, you will realize I have a long way to go in relating well to doubters, skeptics, atheists, and those deeply wounded. I’ve written to the Christian audience for a very long time, yet because of my own deeply wounded family members, and needing to work through my own pain, I really want to learn. Reading “The Doubter’s Club” has helped. It’s a start.

My husband and I also made a total life change this past year, and it has offered me the opportunity to relate with many others who are very unlike me. It’s changing my life.

My hope is to have meaningful faith discussions with you, yet I I’m not looking for notches in my Christian belt. I want to build relationships that discuss faith-based topics without discarding people when they disagree. Jesus came for the broken, and unfortunately we in the church have often failed to live that well in the world. I’m sorry. I want to change that.

IN ORDER TO BETTER RELATE

Would you be willing to critique this and any other post you wish? Not to bash me to pieces, please, but to begin dialogue that matters.

What do you think?

Robin

So, chosen by God for this new life of love, dress in the wardrobe God picked out for you: compassion, kindness, humility, quiet strength, discipline. Be even-tempered, content with second place, quick to forgive an offense. Forgive as quickly and completely as the Master forgave you. And regardless of what else you put on, wear love. It's your basic, all-purpose garment. Never be without it. Colossians 3:12-14 (MSG)

So, chosen by God for this new life of love, dress in the wardrobe God picked out for you: compassion, kindness, humility, quiet strength, discipline. Be even-tempered, content with second place, quick to forgive an offense. Forgive as quickly and completely as the Master forgave you. And regardless of what else you put on, wear love. It’s your basic, all-purpose garment. Never be without it.

Colossians 3:12-14 (MSG)

Want to Know Your Purpose, the Bible Tells You

Want to Know Your Purpose, the Bible Tells You

Have you ever wondered what your purpose for being on earth is? Did you know that God wrote the Bible, in part, to answer that question?

Second post in the series:

WHY WOULD GOD WANT TO SPEAK TO HUMANITY?

About two months ago while packing our car after a hotel stay, a couple crossed the parking lot to meet our dog. During the conversation, the woman stated she had a new puppy named “Nova,” which means “new star.” She then explained she chose that name because she loves astrology.

 

As she spoke, I felt the nudging of the Holy Spirit to pray with them, and let them know that the God who made the stars loves them deeply. As the conversation ended, I asked permission to pray, and she heartily agreed. I then prayed as I had been led.

 

As I finished praying, I saw tears roll down her partner’s face as he commented, “That the prayer affected me deeply.” He then added almost apologetically, “Don’t get me wrong, I believe in a higher power, but I’ve never taken much time to think about it.” I then asked, “But if there is a higher power who made you, don’t you think it would be of great importance to find out if there’s something he wants to communicate to you?” He agreed it would be.

Are you someone who:

  • believes in a higher power, but have never thought beyond that belief to what it means for you?
  • looks at the world and wonders if there’s someone out there who sees and cares about the world’s pain?
  • hopes that you are more than a random combination of chemicals and synapses while questioning if you have a purpose for existing?

Maybe you’ve never entertained such questions, but are you someone who:

  • believe in UFO?
  • spends hours a day playing video games that include deities with super-human powers?
  • enjoys “fantasy” that includes gods, angels, and demons that have other-worldly capabilities.

If you answer “yes” to any of the above, then may I ask what hinders you from envisioning the reality of a God who powerfully exists and desires to communicate something of great importance to you?

God, why am I here?

THE BIBLE IS THE ONLY BOOK THAT FULLY AND COMPLETELY EXPRESSES…

 

GOD’S PURPOSE FOR HUMANITY’S EXISTENCE

The first pages of the Old Testament book of Genesis allude to the purpose for which God created humanity:

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness….”

Genesis 1:26 (ESV) Emphasis mine

Looking at the original Hebrew for this verse, we discover it means that God created us to represent and model him. (Hebrew for image: tselem, is masculine, and means a representative figure; Hebrew for likeness: damah, is feminine and means similar to or modeled after).

Since God created us to represent and model him, it makes sense then to assume that later verses might outline how and when we are to represent him.

HOW GOD MADE US TO REPRESENT AND MODEL HIM

In Genesis 1:26-31 the Bible expresses three ways in which we are to represent and model God:

In wielding power:

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Genesis 1:26 (ESV)

God tasked humanity alone with dominion over his creation. That means we are to model and represent God accurately in any arena where we have authority whether it be in our jobs, homes, communities, or relationships.

Questions to ponder…

  • How can we model and represent God accurately in these areas if we don’t know him personally?
  • If we’ve never taken the time to figure out how he would do things, how can we have dominion over God’s world and treat it as he would?

Jesus himself claimed to be God and represent him in all areas of his life. Therefore, in looking at Jesus’ life, we see how God wields his power. (John 14:8-10, Matthew 20:25-27, Philippians 2:5-11) Do these verses express a different view of God and power than you’ve envisioned? If so, how?

Because I made you for a beautiful purpose, God

Through our gender:

So God created man in his own image,in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them. Genesis 1:27 (ESV)

Questions to ponder…

  • How clear is God about the division of gender?
  • Could it be through both male and female genders that God is best represented? I think the scriptures bear this out:

The Lord is like a father to his children, tender and compassionate to those who fear him. Psalm 103:13 (NLT) (father in Hebrew: ab, masculine)

As a mother comforts her child, so will I (God) comfort you; and you will be comforted over Jerusalem. Isaiah 66:13 (NIV) (mother in Hebrew: em, feminine)

  • Is it possible that God’s purposes for us are best fulfilled when we function within the DNA designation we were born with?

What if you long to identify with your genetic DNA but feel unable? If this describes you, then I recommend www.changedmovement.com. There you can meet people who have found change possible through a relationship with Jesus Christ. You may also wish to listen to Rachel Gilson’s story. She speaks with great compassion and empathy toward those struggling with their gender DNA.

If that’s not where you are there’s no condemnation here. But I would be remiss if I didn’t allow those who want change to know there is hope.

God, why don't I see that purpose?

In our sexuality and in raising our children:

And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Note that God’s purposes are not only for the first man and woman but to all who would come after them, including us. God’s purposes are unchanging.

To fully understand God’s intentions for our sexuality we must also read Genesis 2:15-25 and other Bible passages such as Ephesians 5 (relationships in general); Ephesians 5 (marriage relationships); Ephesians 6 (relationships between parents and children). Also, if you have never read the Old Testament book, “Song of Solomon,” I’d highly recommend it. It’s a dialogue between two lovers, from early courtship through maturing marriage. It’s graphic enough you don’t want your kids reading it.

These passages all point to a God who is deeply concerned about our representation of him in these areas, for several reasons:

  1. Our sexuality is to express God’s beautiful, sacrificial love for a rebellious world as well as his unwavering commitment to his own people. (1 Corinthians 13; 1 John 4:17-21)
  2. The parent-child relationship is to express God’s commitment to and patience with the children he has adopted into his family. (Romans 8:17)
  3. God’s command to multiply and replenish the earth was given to humanity while their relationship with him was unstained by rebellion. Therefore, God’s command to multiply and replenish the earth equals Jesus’ command to make disciples. (Matthew 28:19-20)

Thoughts to ponder…

  • If you long to represent and model God but don’t know how, would you be willing to talk to God about it, and possibly utilize some of the resources on this website to help you in your endeavors?
  • What if you aren’t married? Whether this is a goal or not, if you have questions about how to best represent and model God in being single, I found Rachel Gilson’s book, Born Again This Way, to be very helpful.)

Get to know me through my Word and Spirit and you will. God

OUR UTTER DEPENDENCE UPON GOD:

And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. Genesis 1:26-31 (ESV)

These additional verses are extremely helpful in seeing the truth of our dependency: Hebrews 1:3, Acts 17:28, Colossians 1:17, Matthew 5:44-45

WHAT WOULD GOD’S PURPOSE LOOK LIKE FOR ME?

Everyone is uniquely made and gifted by God. How would your unique gifting and abilities look if you fully yielded them to God’s grand purpose to represent and model him to a very hurting world? Do you think yielding yourself to his design would make a difference? Why or why not?

Blessings, dear one.

Robin

WANT TO SEE OTHER POSTS IN THIS SERIES?

Post One: The Bible – Historic? Or a Direct Communication

What Do You Mean, ‘God Loves You?’

What Do You Mean, ‘God Loves You?’

Blog post from the podcast transcript of episode 002

During the first episode of the podcast, I often referred to God’s love for you as one of our core beliefs. Yet it dawned on me that many of you may struggle with the idea that God loves you, much less wants a relationship with you. The pain of life and the traumas of existence have left you feeling both unloved and unheard.

WHAT WE MEAN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GOD’S LOVE

When looking at God’s love, surprisingly we can go back to the very first pages of the Old Testament where we are given a glimpse of God’s thoughts and longings as he designed the first man and woman.

I understand some of you may hold to beliefs other than a literal creation. I respect you in your opinion, but please follow me a few moments as though listening to a story. I’m going somewhere you may not expect.

Yahweh-The-Lord-The-God-of-compassion-and-mercy-I-am-slow-to-anger-and-filled-with-unfailing-love-and-faithfulness.-Exodus-34_6-NLT.jpg

God’s love was portrayed in his choices toward humanity

Nothing was left out as God carefully took earth and sculpted the man’s body from the pattern of his own being, both in image and likeness. As he finished, he placed his mouth over man’s lifeless lips and exhaled God-life into his lungs, and man became a living soul. Later, so the man would have someone like himself, God formed the woman from Adam’s side, for his delight, their mutual enjoyment, and for procreating and ruling his new earth. God stepped back and for a moment viewed his new designs as though looking at a finished masterpiece. The Bible states that “God saw all that he had made and it was very good.”

Questions to ponder as you consider this scene from Genesis one and two:

  1. Are you an artist or designer? Maybe a baker or possibly a writer? Maybe a new mom or dad? If so, what did it feel like when that which was only in your imagination became real?
  2. Relate this to how God must have felt in that moment and those first days of Adam and Eve’s lives. Could there be similarities?
  3. How could the choices God made as he fashioned the man and woman show his love for them?

However, the Bible states that he only spoke the rest of creation into being, period. Only the man and woman were created in his image, and only they received God’s breathe of life making them living souls.

Further questions to ponder:

  1. Even if you believe otherwise if you were God why would you go to all the effort to make something so like you and so different from everything else you had made?
  2. Could it be that all humanity was made with a special place in God’s heart? Could it be that they were made for a different purpose and plan from the rest of creation?
  3. Could it be that God created humanity, including you, in a way to be able to relate and enjoy a relationship filled with his love?

God’s love chose to allow us to choose

With Adam and Eve in mind, God’s love created a garden, unlike anything we’ve ever seen, and placed them in it. He filled it with only good things.

For their protection, he gave them one rule and warning not to eat from the tree called “The Knowledge of Good and Evil.” My paraphrase: I’ve given you every good tree to eat and enjoy, and every flowering plant. But that tree – it’s bad and eating its fruit will kill you.

I imagine some of you are now asking, “If that tree was so bad, why would a loving God include it in his garden? Great question!

It would have been easier and less painful for God had he just programmed humanity like robots to return his love train them to obey his one command. God had every opportunity to do so.

Questions to consider:

  1. In wanting a healthy loving relationship, can you deny the other party the ability to choose or reject you? What is it called when relationships are forced?
  2. Could it be that God’s love provided the forbidden tree to offer the man and woman the freedom of choice?
  3. Could it be that God did so not to force them to love and obey him as God but to offer the man and woman (and therefore all of us) a chosen relationship with him?
  4. However, what is the possible result when offering someone the ability to choose? Have you ever been in the position of being the one rejected? Can you use this experience to relate to how God must have felt as he placed that tree in the garden, knowing what they would choose?

Their choice

Within a short time, the man and woman were shown the beauty and desirability of the forbidden tree by a talking snake and chose to eat from it because they came to believe that a proper choice required them to know all the options. They were told and chose to believe the tree they’d been forbidden to eat from offered things their good God had forgotten to provide.

Before they ate the fruit from this tree, all they’d experienced was God’s goodness. Yet as soon as they ate the forbidden fruit, their newfound knowledge of evil caused them to immediately begin to experience evil and everything that comes with it. Death. Destruction. Pain. Heartache. Brokenness.

Love covers a multitude of sins

Love means even God feels the pain of our choices

The tree was no threat to anyone if left alone. The talking snake was inconsequential as long as it was ignored and they followed God’s loving warning. However, as soon as they disregarded God’s warning and chose their own way, defiance against God caused evil to enter the world, and marred all of God’s creation through its natural consequences. Evil entered humanity’s core and destroyed their desire for God. Like an addict looking for a fix, feeding their passions became their goal as they died inside to all that was holy and good.

We make the same choices daily to disregard God’s warnings and do as we please, with the same effects.

Going our own way as Adam and Eve once did leads us down a road away from knowing, seeing, and being loved by the God who made us. And since all goodness still comes from God, the only way to experience goodness void of the effects of evil is to return to him. For apart from God there is no good thing.

Questions to ponder:

  1. How would you feel if you designed and created a magnificent piece of art, or built a building beyond anything made before, and someone came along and marred it beyond recognition? What would you want to do to them?
  2. Can you use your feelings to relate to how God had every right to feel when Adam and Eve’s choice brought pain and suffering into his pristine, spotless, pain and shame-free world?

Some of you may be asking, “Is that why God gave up on us?” No, friend. God never gave up.

God’s love chose to forgive and restore their relationship

Moments after their devastating choice, God stepped in and decreed that one day a champion would come and set all things right. And no matter how the world or God’s people treated him, throughout the rest of the Old Testament God continued to proclaim the champion was still coming to bring forgiveness and restoration of relationship with God.

And in the proper time, Jesus, God’s son, someone born like us but without rebellion came to fight on our behalf. He came to bring life and light into a very dark world. He lived as God’s representative full of love and faithfulness. He dwelled among his people as God had always wanted. He then gave his life for all who knew they needed rescuing so that we can experience what it’s like to be known, seen, and loved by the God who made us for this very purpose.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 (NLT)

God’s love longs for you to choose him by reaching out for his Son Jesus. He still offers each of us the choice to choose or reject him with all its consequences. Love must give us a choice.

The Lord is close to the brokenhearted,

The Soul Cries Core Values

Love, Commitment, and Relationship bringing Hope. God loves you unconditionally and longs for you to experience the beauty of a committed relationship with him through his Son Jesus. The totality of his Word and the life of his Son is the fullest expression of his passionate love for you.

But he waits until you desire the same with him. Healthy, loving relationships always set boundaries. No one wants to share their intimacy with a third party, and so God won’t be used or taken for granted. Nor will he share you with the evil and rebellion that mar his world daily through our rebellious choices against him.

However, if you at some point wish to begin a loving relationship with God, your commitment to seek him above all else will unleash powerful lavish gifts for you to experience with him. And some of his greatest gifts will be to empower, strengthen, and give you hope as he walks with you through this world’s pain.

May I please pray for you?

Dear Lord, I come to you on behalf of this dear one. You see their pain and you care about every tear they’ve cried silently in the darkness of their own space. You see their hopelessness and longing to be embraced right where they are. I ask in Jesus’ name that you meet them where they stand, with whatever questions they have, and let them know that you are real and that you love them beyond compare. Please powerfully express your love to them right now in a way they will comprehend. Thank you, in Jesus’ name, amen.

Your next steps

Ready to take steps toward experiencing God’s love in a relationship with him?

Are you willing to look further into the matter? If so, then a simple conversation with God may go something like this, “God, if you’re real, give me a reason to live and I’ll serve you.” Many years ago my husband prayed such a prayer as he contemplated suicide. He later stated that instantly he was filled with peace and knew God was real and had heard his cry. It radically changed his life forever.

And so you know, one of our free resources, a very short Bible study about building healthy relationships with God and people (with short Bible passages and questions similar to the ones you found here) can be obtained for free through a subscription to the monthly newsletter. Head over to the home page to click the link entitled Resources.

You can't go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending. CS Lewis

Want to dialogue further about your questions and doubts?

If you aren’t yet ready to commit to anything with God but would like to discuss your questions and doubts, there are several ways in which we can dialogue. Throughout the website, there are ways to contact me through email. You also may leave a comment at the end of this post and I can get back to you. I’d love to begin a chat about any questions and doubts. It’s a safe place here. We will offer the truth, but we force no one. God gave us all the gift of choice, and we honor that.

You will always be respected and honored, because God’s love for you is as real today as it was when he made you.

 

WELCOME TO SOUL CRIES

WELCOME TO SOUL CRIES

LET’S GET SOME THINGS OUT IN THE OPEN

None of us are perfect

So, no one here at Soul Cries can point fingers at anyone. We’ve all failed in many ways, and we’re big enough to admit it.

Each of us at Soul Cries has discovered that God isn’t into pointing fingers either. We’ve all experienced in varying measures his lavish love and can attest to the fact he longs to express his love to you as well. Right where you are. But his immense love won’t leave you where you are for long because he wants to give you a life you could never imagine, filled with peace no matter what you face.

But being God, he also requires you to want to know him and not just impersonally beg for his gifts. Like any rational person, he longs for a healthy relationship with you where you seek his best as he gives you his. There’s no such thing as a one-night stand with God.

To summarize this point: We aren’t perfect and God doesn’t expect you to be perfect either. He’s into building relationships and so are we. That’s it.

We’ve all experienced messy lives

None of us at Soul Cries are novices at life. From those being interviewed to those doing the writing, we haven’t led pristine lives so don’t expect the best ten tips for making life rosy. We know better.

Although each of us has experienced different messy places we all have one thing in common, we’ve also experienced the love and power of Jesus Christ, which has changed our lives.

Having said that, we also want you to know we aren’t here to shove anything down your throats. So if you want to hang around a while and just see what we’re all about, you are welcome. And if at some point you wish to dialogue, there will be plenty of places and times to do so, without criticism. Do know, we will tell you the truth, and that truth includes a God who loves you and wants so much more for you than you already experience. We’ll also share with you a God who’s powerfully able and willing to take whatever life has thrown at you and transform it over time into something more beautiful than you could ever imagine.

SOME OF OUR UNIQUE FEATURES

This space is a safe environment where you can share your stories, questions, and doubts with us. Please feel free to do so. That’s why we’re here.

We also offer you a variety of means to explore what a relationship with God void of religion looks like. He may be very different than you expect.

  • Music selections that speak to your pain and God’s heart and hope for you.
  • Blog posts that offer biblical answers and volumes of hope because God is for you.
  • Interviews with others who’ve met Jesus and discovered the power of God in their lives, as well as resources from professionals who’ve met Jesus but can also offer professional help.
  • Resources that allow you to seek answers from experts and scientists in their fields, people far more educated than I am. (I can’t fully vet each resource and all they have written, but I am familiar with each to some extent and so feel comfortable sharing them at this time. Each holds to a biblical view but has the expertise to answer questions in ways I can’t.)

THE SOUL CRIES PODCAST

You can find the podcasts from the home page. You can also find them on Sound Cloud @ “Soul Cries Robin L Seaton”

THE BIBLE’S PLACE HERE

We recognize some have been beaten by the Bible. I’m so sorry as it should never be. We will always attempt to share the Bible with the immense love and compassion for you that was intended by God. Jesus spoke harshly about anyone who misused his Word and caused people to lose their faith in him. He said, “It would be better for them to have a millstone hung about their neck and be thrown into the sea.” We take how we share God’s Word seriously.

In saying that, we also want you to know that God’s Word the Bible matters to us and so will always supersede our personal opinions. For we have found the Bible and the life of Jesus Christ recorded in the Bible to be the most faithful means by which God has expressed his lavish love for us. Also, the Bible, when used by God’s Spirit, powerfully speaks to all cultures through all languages and to all strata of society, unlike any other book in history. One of the Bible’s authors stated, “Our ministry is not based on the letter of the law but through the power of the Spirit. The letter of the law kills, but the Spirit pours out life. That is our aim–to pour out God’s powerful Spirit of life to you.


None of us who contribute to Soul Cries are licensed professionals, and so any advice we may give is solely from our own personal experience. We are unable to give professional advice, nor do we assert any information we give to be equal to professional advice. We may on occasion interview a professional, and if we do, they and we will identify them as such.